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Joined: 5/20/2008
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Rank: ProTuner  Groups: ProTuner, Registered Users, Subscribers Joined: 5/20/2008 Posts: 24 | |
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Rank: Administration  Groups: ForumAdmin, ProTuner, Registered Users, Subscribers Joined: 5/20/2008 Posts: 6 |
Lets play!! Rev it up, Drop the clutch, See what happens..... |
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Rank: ProTuner  Groups: Joined: 5/20/2008 Posts: 1 |
Hi All.....so...where do we go from here? Cheers
Howard |
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Rank: Administration  Groups: ForumAdmin, ProTuner, Registered Users, Subscribers Joined: 5/17/2008 Posts: 23 |
AussieLS1evil wrote:Lets play!! You got that right! |
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Rank: Administration Groups: ForumAdmin, ProTuner, Registered Users, Subscribers Joined: 5/20/2008 Posts: 6 |
Howard funny you should say that..
Just of late Howard and I have been trying to sort out a lean throttle tip in issue he has in his S/C Vortec truck.
There are many opinions to what causes this and how to fix it.
Basicly we have done some research and found that HPT's has 14 Transient fueling parameters in there software that no other tuning softwares have.
So we stirred up Ross over at EFILive a little and he has taken the ball and run with it, Currently including these parameters into there definition templates for the E67, E38 and there after the LSx series of PCM's.
We have not played with these parameters before and was wondering if there was anybody that has played with them and could shed some light on the subject.
Howard has a friend that works with GM here in Aus and has helped a little but as you all know I have a passion for obtaining the correct info for most given subjects and appling it.
Lean throttle tip in is my passion at present, can anybody shed some light on these transient fueling parameters?
Something light to get the ball rolling...
Cheers
MickOh, and just to get stuck right into it, one of these parameters is called. Transient fuel mass gain/ Fuel to wall impact factor. operating system # 12208322 (This is the operating system part # Howard uses on his 0411 swap in his Vortec truck). OxB714 9 rows 19 col 16 bit scaler? Rev it up, Drop the clutch, See what happens.....
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Rank: ProTuner Groups: ProTuner, Registered Users, Subscribers Joined: 5/20/2008 Posts: 24 |
How much of a lean tip in? A quick spike like this? This is a Torque Management Retard/fuel cut lean spike  What year Vortec? The LQ9 6.0L has a terrible Tip In Spark Knock. This engine is a 10.1 to 1 vs a 9.4 to 1 normal truck engine. This give a slight hesitation also. Maybe it is a lean detonation. The General sent us some cool tools to monitor Fuel Pressure in the last few years. We got a Digital Fuel Pressure Gauge. This has a Min/Max recording option (Similar to a Fluke DMM). The other tool is high dollar and I have not used it to monitor fuel pressure yet. I am going to hook the Digital Gauge up to the Northstar with N2O and see how much it drops when we make a run without N2O. I may see a tip in drop, but I hope it shoots way up and never tappers off. Then I plan to make a few runs with the N2O. We enable the N2O only after shifting into 2nd and we have been WOT for a few seconds. If we get a drop in fuel pressure when the N2O engages or it tappers down I am going to install a BIG fuel pump. Something as basic as fuel pressure/volume that can not be checked with a needle gauge because of the duration of the condition. Maybe a MAP setting |
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Rank: Newbie  Groups: ForumAdmin, ProTuner, Registered Users, Subscribers Joined: 5/20/2008 Posts: 3 |
Are the VE tables hosed? The PCM dips into the VE on rapid TPS, air is just too spongy to trust the MAF, on the LT1 it dips in the VE tables for around 1 to a max of 2 seconds, most often back to MAF mode within 1 second.
So when I multiplied my VE table by 0.1 to prove that MAF mode does use VE still, I got an eye opener when I nailed it.... Rattle city for a split second. Return VE to stock or my modified values and it was good to go.... So if significant changes to the engine, would be best to dial in the VE to be close to the fueling the engine needs, else it will go lean and as soon as it returns to MAF mode, it will stop and go back to proper fueling, even if at WOT.
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Rank: Administration Groups: ForumAdmin, ProTuner, Registered Users, Subscribers Joined: 5/20/2008 Posts: 6 |
Bugger AJ how did you get that pic in there??? First, no it's way beyond torque management as we have it turned off. Second, yep PCM dips into VE on rapid Acell more so on trucks then LSx platforms. Howards is tuned in OLSD at present, He just has to tap the throttle and a lean spike shows up compared to commanded like he is lacking a acell pump shot. His steady state tuning on his VE table is within .05% AFR in most cases. Remember we have tuned his truck with RTACS and a roadrunner via plx feed back. Need to work out how you got that picture in there AJ and I can show you all what I mean. You can try ramping the VE table up to fudge the lean spike but it does not work really. When you go back to steady state it will be rich. The V8 platforms are quite different to the V6 platforms as you will see acell enrichment parameters in the V6 platforms but not in the V8. Here is a list of Parameters that I'm looking at which are not included in any other tuning software as yet. I find them in HPT's software. Transient Fuel QualificationsMin Fuel Milligrams=constant Min RPM=constant Max TPS=constant Warmup Transient Fuel CorrectionDefco TPS Min=constant Fuel delta min incr=constant Fuel delta Limit=constant Initial Time Decay Mult vs ECT=table Time Decay mult vs ECT=table Previous Correction Reduction vs ECT=table Transient Fuel mass EvaporationFuel Boiling Time vs ECT vs Map=table Fuel on wall Exp Decay mult vs Airflow=table Transient Fuel Mass GainFuel to wall Impact Factor=table Impact FactorGain=table As you can see from the list there are quite a few parameters. As I have mentioned Howard has a friend that is a calibrator with GMH in AUS that has pointed him in this direction..... This you may consider the for front of tuning parametes as not many have seen these parameters let alone have a understanding of them, I'm no exception. We should change that. Hope you all have a better understanding now. Yep need to work out how to put pics in...LOL PS: AJ Howards truck is a 98 L31 5.7 whipple running a 0411 swap. Rev it up, Drop the clutch, See what happens..... |
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Rank: ProTuner Groups: ProTuner, Registered Users, Subscribers Joined: 5/20/2008 Posts: 24 |
AussieLS1evil wrote:Bugger AJ how did you get that pic in there???
PS: AJ Howards truck is a 98 L31 5.7 whipple running a 0411 swap. I knew it was a 96 to 99 5.7L Is it running Multitec injectors? This is a GM upgrade. It did not come with them. You can not run Poppet Valve with boost! TSB #00-06-04-003B: Rough Idle After Start, And/Or A Service Engine Soon (SES) Light (Unstick And Clean Central Sequential Fuel Injection (CSFI) Poppet Valves or Convert to MFI) - (Jan 30, 2003) 93441235 V-8 MFI Assembly 17113206 V-8 Seal Kit 93442096 V-8 Bracket    PS: Mick I thought I had a lean spike, but I did not so I left the nice picture. I Have the Laptop out of the car and will post a lean spike. Hey quote me and see how I post the pictures. |
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Rank: ProTuner Groups: ProTuner, Registered Users, Subscribers Joined: 5/20/2008 Posts: 24 |
Do you know why you can't run Boost and Poppet Valves? Say you have 54 psi behind the poppet it should not open. The threshold is 55 and 56 is the know minimum. 52 PSI plus say 10" of vacuum at cranking will open a Poppet Valve. Say 55 psi and 20" running Vacuum everything is great. 48 PSI will equal a no start. Add an external fuel source to fire the engine, this will create vacuum (20"  in the engine and it will start and run great. Run the Vacuum to 0 PSI and then ramp up to some pressure and the Fuel pressure needs to be 56 + 20 + Boost/10 = 86PSI to make it run correctly. Did I do that correctly? 86 PSI is not correct is it? No 76. Wait it has to be a minimum of 86 PSI. Add the MultiTec and you need 56 Running Plus 10 PSI low vacuum/WOT this is 66 PSI |
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Rank: Administration Groups: ForumAdmin, ProTuner, Registered Users, Subscribers Joined: 5/20/2008 Posts: 6 |
AJ, Howard is running a marine intake with 42 lb/h injectors......forgot to mention that as well. Rev it up, Drop the clutch, See what happens..... |
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Rank: ProTuner Groups: ProTuner, Registered Users, Subscribers Joined: 5/20/2008 Posts: 24 |
AussieLS1evil wrote:AJ,
Howard is running a marine intake with 42 lb/h injectors......forgot to mention that as well. This is not my Laptop and I can't get this worthless POS Vista system to connect or even find my wireless network. GRRRRRRRRRRRR POS This is mine problem 13 to 1 without N2O in 1st gear Shift into 2nd gear and it does that little tiny spike to 13.6 and then drops to 12.9. When the N2o injector opens it spikes back up to 13.1 and come way down to 10.3 and then ramps up to 12.3. By the end of 3rd gear it is 11.7 and I think the N2O line is freezing up cause the Rich condition. |
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Rank: Administration Groups: ForumAdmin, ProTuner, Registered Users, Subscribers Joined: 5/20/2008 Posts: 6 |
 Ok I think I got it sorted...LoL...Thanks. As you can see from the log just on throttle tip in you can see the difference between commanded and actual AFR. You will be able to see that either side of the lean spike the AFR is quite accurate. Rev it up, Drop the clutch, See what happens..... |
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Rank: ProTuner Groups: ProTuner, Registered Users, Subscribers Joined: 5/20/2008 Posts: 24 |
AussieLS1evil wrote:Ok I think I got it sorted...LoL...Thanks. As you can see from the log just on throttle tip in you can see the difference between commanded and actual AFR. You will be able to see that either side of the lean spike the AFR is quite accurate. Are you using a WideBand? |
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Rank: ProTuner Groups: ProTuner, Registered Users, Subscribers Joined: 5/20/2008 Posts: 24 |
That looks just about the same as I have on the LapTop.
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Rank: Administration Groups: ForumAdmin, ProTuner, Registered Users, Subscribers Joined: 5/20/2008 Posts: 6 |
Bottom right corner of log shows Actual commanded (green) vs PLX actual (purple). Pretty spot on really. Rev it up, Drop the clutch, See what happens..... |
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Rank: ProTuner Groups: ProTuner, Registered Users, Subscribers Joined: 5/20/2008 Posts: 24 |
  Why must I tease you about the little 4.6 that could? |
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Rank: ProTuner Groups: ProTuner, Registered Users, Subscribers Joined: 5/20/2008 Posts: 24 |
How about a Smaller T-body?
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Rank: ProTuner Groups: ProTuner, Registered Users, Subscribers Joined: 5/20/2008 Posts: 24 |
CalEditor wrote:Why must I tease you about the little 4.6 that could?
Quote:
Hey guys, I finally got to drive my little mid engine Northstar powered Mazda pickup. Look on page 9 of this thread if you want to see old pics of the truck. I'll try to post some more pics and info later on when I have the time.
I did install a single turbo just to see what this thing was going to do. I didn't run a whole lotta boost but what little I did run was awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 6lbs to be exact. I can go all the way up to 35lbs but I dont think my stock engine will stand much more than that without scattering a bunch of parts all over the road!!!! Im going to build me a good stout engine when I get all the bugs worked out.
Lyndon Wester at Wester's Garage did me an LS1 ECM with a turbo tune. I cant even begin to tell you all what this was like. I was expecting the truck to spin like crazy but I was amazed. The tires are 235-50-ZR18 Firestones . I thought if it wouldn't spin the front end might come off the ground but it didn't. It just took off like a rocket and pinned me back in the seat without any wheel spin at all. I dont think the truck weighs much more than 2200 lbs not counting the northstar engine and tranny.
Right now I have a 3.11 gear in the 4T80E tranny but I've got a 3.70 Im going to change it to later on. Lyndon wasn't able to get the tranny controls working in the LS1 ECM in a reasonable length of time so I went with a stand alone Power Control Solutions - Transmission Control Unit which is very tunable. I think I might like it better anyway. I can change line pressure , shift points , TCC , tire size, VSS and gear ratios and such. This control unit will let you have a performance calibration and a normal driving calibration with a flip of a switch. (A) for performance and (B) for normal driving.
I got to drive this thing about four or five times up and down the road in front of my shop before it decided to twist one of the axles in two. This thing has an awesome amount of torque with the turbo. Im having another set of axles made as we speak. Im going to try some 4340 and have it heat treated this time. The axle shaft is what broke not the joints. The stock Caddy CV axles are definitely not going to be strong enough. Anyone got any ideas on stronger axles?????
I hope AJ will chime in on this one. He has a lot of experience with these engines and ECM's . I'd like to know if he's made any progress with his super charger for his Fiero to.
Steve (AKA mazda1949)
Santa is awesome |
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